Best of Homeschooling with the Trivium Newsletter
Year 1999
by Harvey & Laurie Bluedorn. Copyright 2008. All rights reserved.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998
From: Wayne S Walker
Dear friends,
Last month we began a discussion of the pros and cons of a "classical education." That discussion will continue this month. To make sure that we understand what we are talking about, let us first define a "classical education." A "classical education" is one that is based on "the trivium." According to Harvey Bluedorn, "the trivium" was not just a mediaeval invention. The Romans, Greeks, and Hebrews all recognized it. This "trivium" consists of grammar, logic or dialectic, and rhetoric. Grammar is the accumulation of facts or knowledge. Logic or dialectic is comprehending the relationships between the facts. And rhetoric is the application of what is comprehended, or wisdom.
It is often argued that "the trivium" matches the stages of child development. The grammar stage consists of memorization and learning of information which a young child soaks up like a sponge (grades 1-4). The logic or dialectic stage involves seeing why or the theory behind the facts as a child becomes more inquisitive and analytical (grades 5-8). The rhetoric stage results in the expression of what has been understood and occurs when a child is more creative and expressive (grades 9-12).
Thus, more than just being a curriculum, although some understand that in its most basic sense it does have a core curriculum, a "classical education" is actually a method of teaching, and can be applied to any subject.
In The Teaching Home, Sept./Oct., 1997, (pp. 35-50), the special section dealt with "The Principles of Classical Education." Editor Cindy Short wrote the following excellent introduction to the subject.
"The essence of a classical education is the accumulation, integration, and application of knowledge. The art of learning itself is developed by memorizing whole categories of facts, analyzing relationships between them, and expressing the derived principles. This is accomplished by adding certain subjects and learning activities not common in today's educational practices and by doing so in a specific sequence. The subjects added to an ordinary curriculum are Latin (or Greek), logic, and debate. The activities (abandoned in varying degrees by modern educators) are rote memorization, copy work, recitation, narration, logical analysis, essay writing, speech presentation, and debate. The sequence is important -- first the input of raw data, then logical reasoning based on known facts, and finally expressive communication of understood principles. After these skills have been developed, the student is ready to study in depth whichever advanced subjects he chooses to prepare him for his life work. He will retain these skills and use them throughout his life whenever he needs or wishes to learn something new. A classical education cultivates character qualities and mental habits that fit the student for thoughtful living and responsible leadership even in a climate of fuzzy thinking and propaganda. Such a student, if he is knowledgeable of the Scriptures and dedicated to the Lord, will be well-equipped to lead his family, his friends, his church, and his entire world into the truth that sets us free as we follow Him who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6)."
There follows an extremely interesting and convincing essay, "The Lost Tools of Learning: Mediaeval System Taught How To Think And Learn," by Dorothy L. Sayers, which she originally delivered as a speech at Oxford in 1947. One of the reasons that she argued for a "classical education," in addition to its superior results, was precisely because it could be applied to the learning, application, and expression of Biblical truth in the world. Also in this same issue, David Kertland wrote that a "strong, biblical world view is best achieved by applying the classical method to biblical instruction." Thus, we see the call for a "classical Christian education."
However, as noted last month, there are those who object to this concept. In the Nov./Dec., 1998, issue of The Ohio Home School Companion (pp. 13-15), Earl Rodd wrote an article, "Biblical Education into the 21st Century" (part 2), in which he drew a comparison to (actually, a contrast between) classical and Biblical education. He said, "When we train our children, we cannot expose them to every culture and every language in the few years we have them at home....A classical education will teach logic and rhetoric--and often does so by putting emphasis on the Greeks rather than the Hebrews....A 'classical' education that gives more emphasis to Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, or Shakespeare, rather than stressing Abraham, Isaac, Jacob or Job fails to understand how God view education....The history of the church is full of examples of educational movements and institutions which began with Spirit-led vision and distinctly Christian purposes and then compromised in the use of classical curriculum and slowly lost their entire Christian orientation."
Obviously, it would be possible to have a "classical education" without any Biblical basis at all, simply using "the trivium" to study secular subjects, worldly literature, and Graeco-Roman philosophy. Parents who want to bring their children up in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord so that they will know and serve God would certainly want to avoid that extreme. But it would also seem extreme to omit studying the cultures and languages (primarily Greek and Latin) from which our own western culture and English language have derived so much just because they did not come directly from the Bible. A "classical Christian education" will include in that study a background of Judaeo-Christian history and philosophy, which will show that the best of Greece and Rome is good because it parallels Biblical teaching and the worst of Greece and Rome was the result of their departure from Biblical principles.
The main opposition to a "classical education" seems to be that it will include studying about things which are in opposition to the Bible. Rodd also wrote, "Proponents of classical education defend the study of mythology (which is really the study of false gods, idols or demons) by saying that the myths are an integral part of our western literary heritage. They reason that the 'great' literature uses symbols and images from the myths. When we seek a biblical education, we seek to redeem the time spent reading so-called 'great' literature and use it for the study and activity we find from obeying the written and living Word of God....Thus, in a Biblical education, we not only redeem the time spent studying myths, but also the time spent reading fiction which requires us to think about false gods, idols, and demons."
What is wrong, per se, with knowing about these myths? The very names of our days of the week and months of the year are derived from pagan gods. To know their origin and the stories behind it does not mean that we give any credence to the idols. Some of these heathen deities are even named in the scriptures. Knowing about them helps us to understand those scripture references and the general background into which Christianity spread in the first century. By way of personal example, I am a gospel preacher and believe in the absolute truth of the scripture. Yet, I grew up interested in, reading, and studying about Greek and Roman myths (and Norse too). However, even as a younger child, I knew that they were just what the name implies--myths, fiction, unreal stories made up by men. Because of the Biblical training that I received in my home and in the church, there was never any temptation to think of them as real or give them any acceptance as a standard for living. But knowing about them and what their results were makes me appreciate even more the superior standard that we do have in the scriptures.
It is true that in homeschooling, we will not be able to, and in fact should not, expose our children to every culture and every language. But as we study the history of the wicked world in which we live, and especially as children grow older and become more inquisitive, they will be exposed to culture and ideas that are not in harmony with the Bible. Of course, any introduction of such things will have to be age appropriate, but when it does come what shall we do--just deny that they exist? Or can they be studied in a way that will be helpful? The fact is that the Greek language can be studied using the Greek New Testament, and Latin can be studied using the histories of Caesar, Livy, and others, or the writings of later "church fathers" such as Augustine--without any references to mythology, if that is what one prefers.
The Teaching Home issue cited previously also had an article, "A Biblical World View Approach to Classical Education," by David Quine. He wrote, "Since classical education includes the study of ideas coming from a variety of different sources and viewpoints, some would feel that classical education would be nonbiblical. Whether or not Christians should read Greek and Roman literature is not, however, a 20th century question. What does Jerusalem have to do with Athens? is a question that was asked during the first several centuries of Christianity. How does one reconcile the study of classical thought with the teaching of the Bible?....As you might expect, the Church has not always agreed on the answer as to whether it is biblical to include ideas from a variety of sources."
He then quotes from Dr. Francis Schaeffer, the premier "Christian" philosopher of the twentieth century, in How Should We Then Live?, who wrote, "We must also consider the relationship between Christian and classical thought....The writings of Greek and Roman thinkers who had such an impact upon Renaissance and post-Renaissance culture were in many cases available to be read because their works had been pre- served, read, and discussed by mediaeval intellectuals. So how did the Middle Ages handle its pagan cultural heritage? It is important to assert that although early Christian writers like Cyprian (d. 258) and Tertullian (d. c. 230) had a strictly negative attitude toward classical Greek and Roman learning, Paul had not been so inhibited. When it was his purpose, he cited Greek authors just as he at other times employed the subtle rabbinic lines of reasoning which he had mastered as a pupil of the great Rabbi Gamaliel (d. pre-A.D. 10), grandson of the yet greater Rabbi Hillel (70 B.C.-A.D. 10)."
Schaeffer continued, "Ambrose (339-397), Jerome (347-419), and Augustine (354-430), following Paul rather than Tertullian, learned to appreciate and utilize classical learning. Indeed, they set out thoroughly to domesticate it within the context of a majestic curriculum of Christian education which became the general model followed right up to the Renaissance. But if a robust Christian faith could handle non-Christian learning without compromising, it was all too easy for Greek and Roman thought forms to creep into the cracks and chinks of a faith which was less and less founded on the Bible and more and more resting on the authority of church pronouncements. By the thirteenth century Aquinas (1225-1274) had already begun, in deference to Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), to open the door to placing revelation and human reasoning on equal footing."
Quine then comments, "Historically, the ability to handle non-biblical ideas seems to be conditioned upon two important bases: a 'robust Christian faith' and a proper view of Scripture." Regarding a robust Christian faith he wrote, "It seems that the Apostle Paul and the early Church did not forbid the teaching and using of classical ideas. However, according to Dr. Schaeffer, a person must have a 'robust Christian faith' in order not to compromise the truth....This robust faith is a life based on the risen Christ. He has strength for all things but it is a strength that comes from Christ Who empowers us. It is then that we are fully equipped with the armor of God (Eph. 6:10-20) with no 'cracks or chinks.'"
Regarding the Bible as final authority he said, "Traditional classical education would say that we read the Greek and Roman literature to understand and appreciate their thoughts and ideas. However, we must not simply read to appreciate the beauty of any language. We must consider and evaluate the truth of the ideas embraced. We must be teaching our children to evaluate the thoughts and ideas presented....In order to safeguard our children from ideas not consistent with Scripture, we must have a biblical world view approach to classical education. The Bible must be the final and ultimate authority--the standard by which all ideas are measured and evaluated. We must never mix Christian thinking with Greek or Roman thinking as was done during the Renaissance."
So, there is a Biblical defense for a "classical education," when adapted to the principles of scripture. If we prepare our children especially during the "grammar stage" with sufficient Biblical truth that produces genuine faith (cf. Rom. 10.17), then they should be able to handle in later years the gradual introduction of and exposure to the Greek and Roman culture from which our western heritage draws. Each homeschooling family must decide and choose what type of curriculum and methodology is best for it. I do not believe that anyone would, or at least should, say that those who do not opt to follow a classical approach to education are somehow wrong or ignorant. At the same time, it ill behoves anyone to imply that those who do recognize the benefits of a classi-cal education are necessarily un-Biblical or anti-Christian.
I would like to close this discussion with a quote from Dr. George Grant from his article, "The Resurgence of Classical Education," in The Teaching Home (op. cit).
"So, what is classical education? Very simply, it is a conscious return to those academic disciplines and methodologies emphasizing the basic thinking and character skills necessary to launch young men and women on a lifetime journey of growth and learning....If we are buck the trend of malignant modernity, if we are going to recover our Christian heritage in education, if we are going to be able to pass that heritage on to our children and grandchildren, if we are going to undertake the initiation of unending begin-nings, then we must return to the dumb certainties of Christendom's experience. And that experience begins at
home."
WSW
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998
From: Helene Meath
I am confused. What do you now recommend for Latin, Artes Latinae or Wheelock (which I have never heard of). Which language should we do first?
Latin, right? Your Homeschool Greek is now set up like Artes Latinae too? Do you have a Homeschool Hebrew or any in the works or what do you recommend instead?
THANX!
Hélène
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We like Artes Latinae best. Wheelock is one of the standard Latin deductive grammars used in public and private schools, although some homeschooling families now use it.
Generally it is easiest to start with the Greek alphabet first, when the child is young (anywhere from age 4 to 10 or so), go on to Latin grammar at about age 10 or 11, and go on to Greek grammar at around age 13 or 14. But this is certainly not a hard and fast rule. Some people prefer to just do Greek, some just Latin, some prefer Hebrew. The point I want to make is that there is no authority out there who says you must do such and so at such and so age if you want to homeschool your children by the classical approach.
There are 3 ways to teach a language: deductive (Wheelock, Wilson, Jenny, etc); inductive (Ecce Romane); and programmed interactive (Artes Latinae).
Some grammars are a combination of these approaches (Latin is Fun). See our catalog for more of a description of these 3 approaches. Our Homeschool Greek is a combination of deductive and programmed interactive.
Concerning Hebrew, we recommend Behrman House, 235 Watchung Avenue, West Orange, NJ 07052. They produce a programmed interactive Hebrew grammar. But we don't study Hebrew in our family, so someone else might have a better recommendation. Does anyone have something to add here?
Laurie
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998
Subject: Re: "What do you suggest"
To the person having problems with their 7 year old:
I think I have a good suggestion for you. First of all, a 7-year old, in my opinion, is not ready for a highly academic curriculum. This is a time for a broad range of stories, activities, and involvement in family life. One curriculum I have found to be extremely useful at this age is the Five in a Row volumes by Jane Claire Lambert. This involves reading an excellent story selection every day for a week (hence the name five in a row), and then tackling a subject related to the book each day. For example...Social Studies is Monday, Language Arts is Tuesday, Art-Wed., Math-Thursday, and Science-Friday.....all related to the book. There are three volumes covering an entire year (including summer). You can purchase them through God's World Book Club at 800-951-BOOK.
One other thought. I was having problems with my kids at one time when I stumbled upon a book about learning styles....."The Way They Learn" by Cynthia Tobias. It really opened my eyes to the different personalities of my kids and how they absorb information.
Hope these suggestions help.
Nancy Smith Kilkenny
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999
Can anyone give me some good ideas for high school geometry? I am finding it difficult to get materials with sufficient depth and also sufficient teacher guidance for the "teacher who has not studied it in far too many years. My oldest son taught himself from a college review text but this will not work for my daughter who is weaker in math and needs direct instruction. We have used the Keys to Geometry but find it too easy--no proofs, etc. ABeka is way too complicated. Computer programs, thus far, seem unorganized and lacking in instructional content. I'd appreciate any suggestions as we have to do this four more times!!
Debbie G.
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We have been satisfied with Geometry by Harold Jacobs (can be found in the Elijah Company catalog). It is easy to use and self teaching, yet thorough.
He spends a whole chapter on logic.
Laurie
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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999
My wife and I really enjoyed your web site. The information supplied was a tremendous aid in helping us with different homeschool methods. We are currently schooling our 7 year old daughter and were looking for a 2nd grade curriculum for next year. The Trivium approach is very interesting and we would like more information about it, specifically, how would we begin to incorporate it into our home (for 2nd grade). It seems we were already using the basic method but didn't have a name for it. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
God Bless and thank you,
Patrick Russell
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From: Ida and Alex Wilkins
Subject: curriculum for kindergarten
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998
I am enjoying your email loop, but wanted to address a question specifically to you, so here we go. My daughter is 4 years old and will be 5 in February. I am currently teaching her phonics with Play N' Talk. I plan to work with her on her numbers and math enough to have her ready to start Kindergarten in August of 1999.
I am in contact with some friends in Baton Rouge, Louisiana who started a Classical Christian School, and they begin with Saxon 1, Spalding and Five In A Row for Kindergarten. I love books and my daughter does too, so the Five In A Row is agreeable enough to me, but I was interested in what you and maybe others started out with. My only objection to the Five In A Row is that I am not really sold on unit studies, although it may not be as critical for the really younger children.
This school starts History (with the Veritas Press history cards), Grammar (using Shurley Grammar) and Science (they didn't specify what they use for science) in first grade. I was just wondering if there is any particular reason not to go on and start with those things in Kindergarten too.
I guess I would also like to know if you use a specific curriculum to study literature, and if so, what curriculum do you recommend? The school in Baton Rouge uses Spalding plus Literature, so I probably wouldn't be able to use that very easily since I'm not using Spalding for phonics, reading and spelling.
Anyway, those are my questions, and I'd love to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Ida
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Dear Ida,
Are you planning on homeschooling your wee one or sending her to a private school? I will assume you plan to homeschool. The private school curriculum you described used in Louisiana sounds like the common classical Christian school curriculum used in many classical Christian schools all across the country. These classical Christian schools combine the philosophy of the "early academics approach" along with the classical matrix of grammar, logic, and rhetoric to produce their curriculum.
There are many ways to apply the classical approach of education to homeschooling. Some homeschoolers who want to follow the classical approach use the type of curriculum that is used in these classical Christian schools. Our family applies the classical approach to homeschooling differently. We would disagree with the "early academics approach" and would lean more toward the traditional classical "later academics approach" combined with the trivium mattrix. There is only so much time in the day, hence, we suggest that academics are not necessarily the focus before age ten. Rather, this is the time to sow the seeds of honoring God and parents, developing the capacity for language and the appetite for learning, enriching the memory, and instilling a work and service ethic. This is the time to lay the foundation for the academics which will follow.
You are correct in teaching your daughter to read using a good intensive phonics method such as Play N' Talk or Spaulding. I would only perhaps suggest that age 4 is somewhat early to begin the study of phonics, although it is certainly true that some children catch onto reading sooner than others. Looking back, if I had it to do over again I wouldn't even start the study of phonics till age 6, unless I had a child who showed readiness at an earlier age.
I personally like unit studies and think they fit in well with the classical approach. They work especially well with children in the grammar stage. I have never looked at Five In a Row. Perhaps someone on this loop could comment on that. As far as history is concerned, I suggest you spend a lot of time reading aloud biographies, autobiographies, and published journals and diaries (use the library). Make your own time line. Teach her to sew costumes. For science, read aloud books on different scientific subjects (use the library), visit science fairs, take field trips to museums and zoos (see our article in TTT on teaching science). What you want to do at this age is develop in the child a curiosity toward history and science.
I would wait to teach English grammar and math till age 10.
Concerning literature, well, the best way to study literature at a young age is to just read literature. Good literature. Find yourself a recommended reading list and work through that list. Again, use the library. I hope all this recommending of libraries doesn't weary our loop subscribers. I just remember what it was like to have 5 small children and not a dollar to spend on books. The library to us has always been a lifesaver. Am I alone here?
Laurie
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999
Subject: Re: Henty books
Greetings in the name of our Lord! I am currently reading our sixth Henty novel to my boys, ages 11 and 7. We managed to borrow five of them in the past year, and I bought two new ones from Timberdoodle as Christmas presents. The boys were thrilled that these are our own!
So far we've read In Freedom's Cause: A Story of Wallace and Bruce (1314 AD), which renewed their interest in their 1/16th of Scottish ancestry (and gave me a totally different view of the times than "Braveheart" did).
Then we read By Pike and Dyke: A Tale of the Rise of the Dutch Republic (1579 AD), which gave us all a lot of information about this period of Reformation history.
This was followed by For the Temple: A Tale of the Fall of Jerusalem (70 AD), which gives new meaning to the word "tribulation." It also sparked a keen interest in the Roman Empire, which was further fed by Beric the Briton: A Story of the Roman Invasion (61 AD). We rented the old film "Spartacus" afterward to help visualize the setting, weapons, etc.
Another friend loaned us an original copy of With Lee in Virginia: A Story of the American Civil War (1860s AD), which fit right in with the boys' interests in the Civil War. We used it to study my great-great-grandfather, who served in the Union Army.
Right now we're reading The Young Carthaginian: A Story of the Times of Hannibal. As with all these books, we use an atlas to track the movements of the characters and the locations of the battles and other events. The boys have ancestral roots in the regions of Spain that Hannibal subdued.
Next we will read our other Timberdoodle find, St. Bartholomew's Eve: A Tale of the Huguenot Wars (1580 AD), which I will tie in with our ancestors from France who emigrated to America right after this period.
Ideally I would have liked to study these books in chronological order concurrently with units on these periods of history, but these books were available for a short time, and we seized the opportunity.
All of these stories feature a young hero who is caught up in the events of the period and who usually finds himself at the service of the central historical figure of the time (Hannibal, Wallace, Nero, etc.). The hero is always bright, hard-working, respectful of his parents, chivalrous to women, and courageous, but not willing to give his life away needlessly. In the stories of the Christian era, he is usually a believer or he becomes one. In the pre-Christian era, he is moral and often uncomfortable with the pagan practices of his time (child sacrifice, etc.).
Yes, there have been instances of bigotry or racism, but these are discussed and dealt with, just as we did when discussing Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn, or any other older book. Henty's British view of the American Civil War is especially interesting.
Hope this helps!
Ginny Youmans, wife of Sergio, mother of Andre (11), Emilio (7), Olivia (5), Cassandra (2) and #5, who is on the way!
Hickman County, Tennessee
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Subject: High School Geometry
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999
<Can anyone give me some good ideas for high school geometry?>
We, too, have used Harold Jacobs' Geometry book. As Laurie mentioned, it begins with an entire chapter on "The Nature of Deductive Reasoning." When a mathematics textbook begins with logic, you can bet that you will find an emphasis on logical thought throughout! The book is thorough and challenging. Each lesson is followed by three sets of problems, the third being a logical application of the principles covered in the form of a brain-teaser or puzzle. At the end of each chapter, a page of summary and review of definitions, postulates, and theorems covered in the chapter is presented. A short algebra review is also given after each chapter to keep algebraic 'tools' sharp in the student's mind.
As far as helps for the parent-teacher, we did use the teacher's key (With five to teach, we don't have time to work all those problems!) to check our daughter's work. I don't know if a Teacher's Edition is available to aid the parent in presenting concepts. The material is organized in such an orderly, logical way that our daughter worked through much of the material on her own. I think Mr. Jacobs' presentation is clear enough that even with math that is a bit rusty (we had to get out the oil can with a few of our daughter's questions), a parent could teach through the introduction to each lesson and give a student enough guidance to work through the problem sets.
An occasional proof written in paragraph form rather than merely using mathematical symbols, has proven to be a useful exercise to help develop verbal expression of logical thought. If your daughter shines more in language skills than in mathematics, this might allow her to use her strengths to advantage in learning more difficult material.
Hope this is helpful.
LaJuana Decker
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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999
Regarding the pros & cons of the classical education topic:
Fifteen years ago I attended two seminars on the Principle Approach and America's Christian History - and am curious that when discussions arise on the study of logic that the works of Montesquieu, Blackwell and Locke, among others are never mentioned. The reasonings of these men from Biblical principles to application of government & life is excellent and worthy to be studied by students of logic, and for all when learning of America's history. It saddens me when I do hear proponents of classical education criticizing the study of our history to the degree that they do when such powerful works based upon God's principles have so much to offer. I do believe their study should have a prominent place in a classical education - as the "biblical" and "classical" components are so evidently combined in them. These writers certainly, themselves, benefited from a classical education, and put it to the best of use in their considerations of biblical application to government. Such reasonings to conclusions and application had never been done, and have not been done since as they were in the formation of our country. Might it be that these works are just not well known in classical circles of study yet? Or are there criticisms of these works that I am not aware of that would lessen their validity as classical works to study?
Valerie
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Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999
We are listening to Ernle Bradford's "The Mediterranean"--(he's the author of The Great Siege). Wow, this is an exciting and comprehensive history of western civilization and its roots! The Books-On-Tape catalog which carries the unabridged recording says in their catalog: "Ernle Bradford is a sailor-historian who cruised the Mediterranean for many years. He believes that to understand its history one must first understand its geography, and he sees the interplay between east and west across the Mediterranean as the yeast of our culture." Our family is enjoying the many unknown facts of people and cultures in Bradford's captivating narrative...We highly recommend it.
And yes, all our children love G.A. Henty!
Sincerely, Victoria and Mark Kukielski
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Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999
Subject: trivium in French?
Hi !
I'm from France and in the U.S. for a period of 6 months. I have two children 3 yob and 18 mog, and heard about homeschooling last August. In France, it's very unusual and I hope to get a lot of information during my stay in the U.S. (Indianapolis, In.). I heard about you through Lucy Shockney. I enjoyed your web site and especially Nathaniel's work in organizing this site, and his home page --very interesting his point of views and very well written. I'd like to know if there is a written catalog and if you have information about people using the trivium in France or Quebec? Thank you a lot for any information.
Agnes Ohlenbusch
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999
Subject: frustration and failure
Dear Laurie,
I'm afraid writing to you will only frustrate me further, but here it goes.
I've always wanted a classical education for my children. I've taught my eldest son to read and to spell use the Writing Road to Reading method and I must say he reads very well. So, I can pat myself on the back for that! I had wanted to expand and get into a real education with him. He is ten years old now. I have three other children, .... (8), ....(4) and ....(8 months old). A... is now learning to read.
I had to jettison N... (the eldest) to the public school system right after the Thanksgiving break. Even with the abuse that gets hurled at him at the school, he is very happy.
I am dissatisfied with the education he is getting at the school because they appear to be majoring in the minor subjects and minoring in the major subjects. But the stress in our household has been such between children and parents getting sick and a lack of partnership between my husband and myself that I get weird from the stress of it. The requirements of the state don't help much in that way either. Friends tell me to ignore the state and just do what I believe is necessary. It's true they don’t follow up on their demands but who is to say that won't change?
Also, my children are widely spaced enough that the younger ones can't make head or tails of what the older ones are learning, so I can't group them together. Also, I am afraid of damaging my relationships with the younger children by concentrating on the older ones (in fact I'm trying to make amends to my third child). He'd much rather spend time with his sister then sit for a few minutes of reading with me. My hope is that N... would be able to come home for school next year but I don't see how it can be managed. Any ideas? If any of this makes sense to you, please reply.
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Dear Mary,
I don't know if I can be of any help or encouragement to you, but I'll try. Your children are so very young. Ten years old is so young to be put into the unnatural environment of a government school. In your letter you mention some very real concerns you have, but none of those problems will be solved by putting the oldest in school.
Most children who attend a classroom school -- private or government, Christian or secular, classical or traditional -- are pulled toward their peers. They bond with their peers, and they are drawn away from their parents. The authority of the parents is undermined -- subtly and perhaps quite unintentionally, but nevertheless unavoidably. In The Socialization Trap, Rick Boyer says, "Peer socialization breaks down family relationships.... [it] separates kids both from their siblings and their parents through time commitments, interests and emotional bonding." Oh, sure, the child stills loves mommy and daddy. But the heart, the affections, the attentions, the very life of the child becomes bound up with his peers. Parents lose the hearts of their children. If you had asked us in 1985 why we homeschooled our children, we would have responded that we wanted our kids to get a good education. We wanted them to learn Latin and Greek. Today, we would tell you we Homeschool because we don't want our kids to be socially bonded to their peer group. We want to keep the hearts of our children where they ought to be, with their parents, until it is time for them to marry and to leave home. We parents need the sanctification which comes from teaching our children, and our children need the same from us.
You mentioned that your little one likes school. Many children do like to be around their peers. These are the very children that should especially be kept away from their peers.
I don't know your situation, but may I make a suggestion? Perhaps you would want to evaluate the discipline in your family. Do your children obey you willingly and cheerfully? Are you satisfied with their obedience? Of course, we will never get perfection, but you know what I mean. Do you have the hearts of your children? Reading between the lines I'm guessing that you are frustrated because things are not going like you would like it to. There are fights and no communication with your husband. The children don't respond like you would like. You find yourself getting angry over little things. Perhaps you loose your temper. We travel all over the country giving our seminars and staying with literally hundreds of families. I can tell you that you are not alone. Families that may look perfect to you have the same problems everyone else has. Every day I find I fall down and every day I find I must ask the Lord to lift me up.
Your little ones don't need much formal academics at this point. They just need you and Daddy loving them and each other and saying sorry when you fall. Read to them, read good thick books that you enjoy to all of them at the same time. Read the winter away.
Laurie
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999
Subject: Poems with principles
Here are two poems by Kipling that teach good principles, inspired me as a student, and should be read and then taught to every school child. This is the sort of thing that gives them the backbone to not submit to pressure in the face of overwhelming odds.
Daniel New
The Dane-Geld
A.D. 980-1016
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say:--
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."
And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!
It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:--
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:--
"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
Nor matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"
----------
Norman and Saxon
Rudyard Kipling
A.D. 1100
"My son," said the Norman Baron,
"I am dying, and you will be heir
To all the broad acres in England
that William gave me for my share
When we conquered the Saxon at Hastings,
and a nice little handful it is.
But before you go over to rule it
I want you to understand this:--
"The Saxon is not like us Normans.
His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious
till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow
with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,'
my son, leave the Saxon alone.
"You can horsewhip your Gascony archers,
or torture your Picardy spears;
But don't try that game on the Saxon;
you'll have the whole brood round your ears.
From the richest old Thane in the country
to the poorest chained serf in the field,
They'll be at you and on you like hornets,
and, if you are wise, you will yield.
"But first you must master their language,
their dialect, proverbs and songs.
Don't trust any clerk to interpret
when they come with the tale of their wrongs.
Let them know that you know what they're saying;
let them feel that you know what to say.
Yes, even when you want to go hunting,
hear 'em out if it takes you all day.
"They'll drink every hour of the daylight
and poach every hour of the dark.
It's the sport, not the rabbits, they're after
(we've plenty of game in the park).
Don't hang them or cut off their fingers.
That's wasteful as well as unkind,
For a hard-bitten, South-country poacher
makes the best man-at-arms you can find.
"Appear with your wife and the children
at their weddings and funerals and feasts.
Be polite but not friendly to Bishops;
be good to all poor parish priests.
Say 'we', 'us' and 'ours' when you're talking,
instead of 'you fellows' and 'I.'
Don’t ride over seeds; keep your temper;
and never you tell 'em a lie
------------------------------------------
From: Sergio & Ginny Youmans
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999
Subject: Greek pronunciation question
We're trying to teach our children the Greek alphabet, but neither my husband nor I know how to correctly pronounce sounds of some of the letters--omicron and omega. We have a copy of your daughter Johannah's alphabet book, and she writes that omicron sounds like the o in smoke, while omega sounds like the o in arrow. To us, those are the same sound. In the book English from the Roots Up it says that omicron sounds like the o in obey, and omega sounds like the o in go.
Again, these are the same sounds for us. Are we missing something here? My husband speaks three languages, and I have a degree in linguistics, but I still can't figure out how to pronounce these letters! Help! Can you give us some other examples of each sound?
Ginny
--------------------------------
I will quote from "A Greek Alphabetarion":
The sound of Omega is partly the same as English "O." In English, we commonly give "O" these two sounds: the short "o" in "on" and the long "o" in "own." Greek Omega never has the "short o" sound of "on." Greek Omega only has the "long o" sound of "own." Omicron only has the "long o" sound of "note." You will remember that the Greek language gives every vowel two quantities: short and long. However, the Greek vowel named omicron has only one quantity: short. The Greek vowel named omega has only one quantity: long. Our English-trained ears do not notice the difference in quantity between the "o" in "note" and the "o" in "known." But in Greek we must notice the difference.
As you lengthen the shorter quantity "o" sound in "note," and glide it toward the consonantal sound of "w," you will produce the longer quantity "o" sound in "known."
Short omicron is the sound in "note." Long omega is the sound in "known."
Omega is the long of omicron, or omicron is the short of omega. Omicron means little "o" and omega means big "o."
-------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999
Subject: Hebrew studies for high schoolers & others
Stuart and I, with some close friends, have been making a go at Hebrew, on and off, for a couple years now. One of our friends had a year of it in college. We've tried 2 seminary texts, and have been thoroughly muddled and unhappy.
We've now found EKS Publishing, in Berkeley, CA, which produces Hebrew materials for laypeople. I think I heard about it here in this discussion group. We're using the First Hebrew Primer, written for adults, and it's very easy to understand and use, and even fun. It's biblical Hebrew (as opposed to prayer book or modern, which mainly indicate different vocabularies learned), and includes translating the entire book of Ruth. I could definitely recommend it for a High School student.
Also, Behrman House, which the Bluedorns recommend, produces materials for children. Their interactive primer (teaches how to read and vocab) is advertised as being able to be used "by any child who can read." It looks very simple and easy, too. They also have Modern Hebrew textbooks, which look like high school level.
As an aside, one great supplement to our study has been an interlinear Hebrew- English bible, so you can absorb vocabulary while practicing your reading. It seems the next best thing to conversing in Hebrew. We plan to memorize Hebrew scripture verses together with our boys (4 and 6) to help them learn vocabulary until they're ready to study it... although, I think the older one could start reading it soon. They both know the alphabet.
We haven't gotten too far, but thought I'd share what we've learned as an encouragement to others. We do enjoy it, and it's a thrill to be able to (attempt to) read the Bible in Hebrew.
Stuart and Jennifer Loucks
Vallejo, California
-------------------------------------
From:"Barbara and Mario Martinez
Subject: Kindergarten
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999
> My daughter is 4 years old and will be 5 in February. I am currently >teaching her phonics with Play N' Talk. I plan to work with her on her >numbers and math enough to have her ready to start Kindergarten in >August of 1999. > I am in contact with some friends in Baton Rouge, Louisiana who >started a Classical Christian School, and they begin with Saxon 1, >Spalding and Five In A Row for Kindergarten.
Dear Ida,
I just came out of teaching Kindergarten. Here are a couple of programs to look at:
One is The Writing Road to Reading by the Riggs Institute (they have a web site which is highly informative). Also SingNLearn (also on the web) have some great stuff.
Sing N Learn.. get their catalogue, not just the web site. They have great tapes with Bible versus set to song (they have a wonderful one called "Sing the Word v2"); they have many children's books on tape. (Also.. don't hesitate to find books on tape at your local library. ) They are well produced, by and large, and seem to be reasonably priced. They also sell something called "Sing, Spell, Read and Write" which many parents have used for kindergarten.
I also used some of the tapes from Audio Memory (also on the web). The Geography one has some nice songs which teach the countries of the world (an a big map to color!), another one is on the Presidents.. another on States and Capitols.. Addition.. etc. You can get one at a time, as you get tired of one.. or perhaps if you have another friend with a similar age child, you can swap tapes? None that I have listened to so far have rock.. and I just let the tapes roll while they Painted or played with Knex or Capsellas or colored or while we did other things (like mush). It gives the vocal cords a rest, the kids will learn something more than "a tisket a tasket."
I've had more than one person tell me to steer clear of Saxon math before 54. I didn't listen very well. I should have. However, if you are inclined to get a solid early math book, I can give a good plug for Math-U-See. It is effective, and works. The Mac the Muskrat skip counting tapes are EXCELLENT and worth the $10.00
You might want to consider some McGuffy Readers. I have the 183? version. The early primers are actually better. The virtue of the later primers, seems to be that they added primers for the upper grades (near as I can tell?). I found a couple of work books to go with the First Reader, and flash cards to go with the primer. The picture primer *might* be appropriate for the second part of Kindergarten.. maybe earlier if you child is reading anyway. Another good approach is The Victory Drill Book. It starts with the CVC words, and builds a phonics base, and is significantly cheaper than Sing Spell Read and Write ($15.00 +shipping for the book). Scripture is introduced early on, once a child has enough words. It also includes some tips for teaching fluency. The Josephine Pollard books are nice once you get past the long vowel sounds.. The story of Geo Washington works well right after McGuffy Reader 1. However, it is always good to know when you are looking about at garage sales, what to look for.but that is probably more for the 6-7 year old set at this point.
Well.. hope this helps. Grace and Peace
Barbara
----------------------------
From: jubilee canavan
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999
My name is Julie Canavan. I would like to subscribe to the loop. I have a 5, 3 year old and a 3 month old. I am determined, with God's grace, to homeschool our children. I am so excited about the Trivium. I feel like my whole education was wasted, though, the opportunity to relearn is simply tremendous.
I have read much about classical education and would like to pose a question about anyone's thoughts on the book, Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum, by Laura Berquist. Do you think it has any gaps to fill? Or would following it provide the guidelines necessary for a complete preparation for university studies?
And, how do you not get bogged down with "keeping up with the Jones'"mentality? I feel really confident about our choice and direction but, I can't stop comparing the results with public schooled children.
Thanks, Julie
------------------------------
I would suggest surrounding yourself with people who think like you do. If you surround yourself with people who use the government schools then you will find yourself constantly being tempted to compare your children's achievements with theirs. If you want to compare things, compare the behavior of your children to the behavior of government schooled children.
Laurie
-------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999
From: Helene Meath
I have a question about diagramming sentences. What is the point and what is the practical value? I have never understood this. I diagrammed in 9th grade for about 10 weeks maybe and that's it for me. Yet people tell me I'm a good writer. Isn't that the rationale behind grammar study, to make better writers? Maybe someone that knows the rationale behind diagramming (besides "it's good discipline for the student") could post about this. Thanx!
---------------------------
Diagramming is just one method of learning grammar. Another way of learning grammar is the method used by the curriculum Easy Grammar, where the student labels and underlines in different ways the words of the sentences.
Another way is by "parsing" sentences which is what they did in Laura Ingles Wilder's time. Another way is used in Winston Grammar. I personally like diagramming because it is so organized and precise. Diagramming also involves logic. When you diagram you study the logic of the language of the sentence.
Laurie
--------------------------------------
There will be no logic loop this week. Right now there are 5 people in this house sprawled out in various positions on various pieces of furniture in various stages of the flu. I am frantically trying to catch up on my email 'cuz I know I'm next. We have determined that girls complain less than boys when sick. Laurie
-----------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
The Friesen's asked about a grammar handbook that included diagramming sentences. I have liked Louise M. Ebner's _Exploring Truths_ as a pretty thorough grammar that is appropriate for 6th grade or above. Scripture is used throughout for the examples and exercises. Hey, why not think about something worthwhile as you learn the function of a gerund? There is a companion book _Exploring Truths Through Diagramming_ that gives practice in diagramming through exercises of increasing difficulty. While it is not very long, I think it covers almost everything that may come up in diagramming, and once you have the basics, its easy to provide more practice by just choosing sentences from other texts.
I've had these for a few years, so I hope they are still available from AMG Publishers, Chattanooga, TN 37422. An added bonus is that they were very inexpensive!
Sylvia Hill
-------------------------------------
Taken from Drums by James Boyd (1925), a book we just finished reading:
The time is about 5 years before the War for Independence. The place, North Carolina. Thirteen-year-old Johnny has been sent from his backwoods home to Dr. Clapton (a Church of England pastor) in the nearest city to be tutored. He had been homeschooled up to that point. In this passage Dr. Clapton is determining where Johnny stands academically.
"Now," he said, "fetch down your school books and we shall see."
What Dr. Clapton saw by the end of the morning was this: that Johnny wrote a fair hand and spelled within reason, that he read the easier passages in Caesar's Commentaries passably but with no pretensions to elegance; and that his efforts to write Latin were uniformly deplorable. In the realm of science he could add, subtract, divide and multiply infallibly if given ample time, but of fractions the less said the better.
"You must learn to cipher, Johnny. It is unfortunate that gentlemen's sons should employ their time in the commercial branches, and I should never subscribe to a young man's going a step beyond fractions and decimals, unless, of course, he were to enter his Majesty's navy, and even there I consider that the mathematics should be left as far as possible to the lower ranks. But with clerks and stewards what they are nowadays, a gentleman must know fractions if he would protect his affairs."
"Yes, seh. Dadder said I must learn fractions."
"I have no doubt. A knowledge of ciphering is commonly demanded by the parents of this Province." His eye wandered. "I have concluded," he murmured, "that ciphering is one of the unavoidable disadvantages of a new country. Yes."...
"...as to Latin exercises; that is more serious. When I was a Colleger at Eton the meanest scholar your age could do his fifty lines a day with never a false quantity."
-------------------------------------------
People often ask if it is "too late" to start the classical approach with their 11 (or 13 or 15 or 17) year old. I always respond that it is never too late. But I would like to mention that in some cases it would be very difficult. If you have, say, a 15 year old who has been raised by the government school, fed television and such like for 3-4 hours a day, seldom been read to and reads only lite literature, and generally not been trained how to think or been trained not to think, then homeschooling with the trivium will be a great challenge for you. But, if the student and the parents are motivated and willing to make changes in their life, then it can be accomplished. A classical education is not just Latin and logic, but a way of life.
Laurie
-----------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
Subject: Re: Sentence diagramming
Carol Friesen asked about a grammar handbook that uses sentence diagramming. I have found Learning English with the Bible: A Systematic Approach to Bible-Based English Grammar by Louise M. Ebner (AMG Publishers). This is a three-volume set (workbook size) consisting of a textbook, an answer guide, and a diagramming guide (which includes an answer guide for the diagrams). It uses Scripture in the KJV and includes "exploring truths" exercises that require the student to look up additional verses, read them, and explore them further (could be used as essay questions). It's meant to be a consumable workbook set, but I'm frugal (and I have at least four more students after this one), so I have my son use a separate sheet of paper for his answers.
Ginny Swarr Youmans
--------------------------
Subject: Advice needed
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999
I'd like everyone's advice for a friend who is planning on removing her son from public schools and homeschooling him. This is a major step for this woman as she is a single mother. She is planning on quitting her job and starting to drive a school bus so that she can be home with her son.
Here is her situation:
He is currently reading below grade level (he is in the 5th grade) but is ineligible for remedial reading. Even though his teacher believes that he is in need of assistance, the child scored too high on the state reading exam to qualify for the assistance program. His teacher does not expect to promote him to the 6th grade next year. The child is the "class clown".
Can anyone recommend any books or personal experience that would help my friend with this problem? I'm passing any advice I receive on to her. She doesn't have a computer.
Thank you,
Debbie Strittmatter
-------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999
I am Barbara Smith of Palmerston North, New Zealand. My husband, Craig is National Director of Christian Home Schoolers of New Zealand and The Home Education Foundation of New Zealand. Craig runs an email discussion group for all home educators, hefnet@xtra.co.nz and last week began a discussion group just for Christian Home Educators, chednet@xtra.co.nz.
I would like to join a Classical Christian Home Educators discussion group in the USA where Classical Christian Home Educating has been going for longer. All the people I know in New Zealand who are using the Classical Home Education approach have not been doing it for more than a year. The trivium is a new concept to most people in New Zealand. Those who are using the Classical approach are adding bits (mainly Latin, another living language and more indepth history) to what they have already been doing. Although some people had read "The Lost Tools of Learning" noone did anything about it until the end of 1997/beginning of 1998 when we got the Sept/Oct 87 Teaching Home on Classical Education. We then began surfing the internet and reading as much as we could.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Barbara Smith
----------------------------------
Subject: getting back into Artes Latinae
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999
Dear Harvey and Laurie,
I wonder if you would have any suggestions for us concerning getting back into studying Latin using Artes Latinae. Our homeschool always seems to have major interruptions. In the past two years we have had times where we have had to set aside homeschooling for 2 months or more. When we stop the Artes Latinae program for even a month it is so hard to get back into it again. One time about two years ago, my son and I went way back in units and restudied everything. Then after my daughter was born I took off two months. When we tried to get back into Artes Latinae again it looked like we would have to go way back again. This is discouraging for my now 13 year old son who loved Latin at first. We have dropped Latin now for almost a year because it is so discouraging to have to go back so far in review. The program doesn't seem to have any way to quickly review what you are rusty on. I have considered changing programs but can't seem to use any other program with the ease we could Artes Latinae when we were first regularly using it. I have a baby and other young children and liked Artes Latinae because I didn't really have to prepare ahead to teach the lessons. The big problem, though, is what I have mentioned. How to get going again after having stopped it for a long time. Any suggestions? Did you ever have times when you discontinued studying for a while like I described? If so, what did you do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely, Janet Dodds
----------------------------------------
All foreign languages need to be studied on a regular basis--at least 4 times a week and it's best not to take the whole summer off. If you stop for any length of time it is perfectly normal to feel lost and need to go back and review. It happens to everyone. That's the nature of language study. Don't let it discourage you, though. Just go back and review. We're not interested in producing Ph.D Latin scholars, so don't think "I've got to get through such and such amount of material." Just everyday study, little by little is what we want. We use language study to develop the mind, just like math. Perhaps the boy could just study Latin by himself, without you. But if you do that you should get the tests to check his progress. My daughter Helena didn't study Latin last year and when she started again this year she had to nearly start over.
Laurie
-------------------------------------
We are still in the midst of the influenza here. Twelve days of fever is too much for the body of this old lady. Johannah has pneumonia, but is doing better today. Our family would appreciate your prayers.
Laurie
-------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999
Subject: Re: Latin and other languages
The following letter came in on our New Zealand discussion group. Can anyone help us? Thanks, Barbara.
Thanx so much, Barbara. When my 11 y/o daughter saw me contemplating the list she said "Latin"! I don't want to learn that-NO ONE speaks that anymore!! I want to speak Mandarin, Japanese, Korean ,"Malaysian" whatever....!" She is passionate about all things Chinese. We have several Taiwanese friends and she has taught herself a lot of Mandarin, enough to be able to converse simply with their children. So much for a classical education (which I would like her to pursue). What do you think about pushing Latin anyway? I learnt Latin and French at high school and have found Latin very useful in so many ways with English language, medical studies etc, but how helpful do you think it will be for someone so set on the East? Comments would be welcome!
Jill
---------------------------
A classical education isn't just Latin. It's a way of life. I would let her pursue the Chinese languages. Perhaps you will find she has an aptitude for languages and will want to study Latin or Greek later.
Laurie
--------------------------
REVIEW
Managers of Their Homes
A Practical Guide to Daily Scheduling for Christian Homes-School Families by Steven and Teri Maxwell
When I asked Teri why they were writing this book she said, "our goal?is to help free mothers from any burden of discouragement they carry when they can't keep up with the demands on their time." Well, they have reached their goal!
For our family a schedule is mandatory in order to accomplish anything. This is a necessity for my sanity! With no schedule to follow, the days just melt away with me simply trying to mop us the messes and have some semblance of dinner ready before daddy gets home.
By following our own families custom schedule we have a vision for how it is possible to accomplish certain things that we need to each day. Furthermore, with our schedule we are able to successfully finish MORE than ever before, so it is not just our basic needs that we finish. With a plan we are able enjoy some of the before only dreamt of things, like quilting and putting together this publication!
The beauty of this system has been the ease of setting it up. Someone who has never worked out a schedule before will find it so easy with this that they will wonder what all the fuss over scheduling drudgery is about. You are lead through it so gently and in such small, easy to swallow steps (just the way we should train our children!!!) that it just seemed to effortlessly come together. But don't deceive yourself into thinking that this is only for the inexperienced "scheduler." I have put together many schedules over the years. Yet with this book and kit I was astonished at how effortless it was. If I became a little overwhelmed I put it away for a while. With this it was fun - kind of like one big puzzle.
The book is a treasure chest of "golden" ideas. If you haven't already been convicted and convinced about your families need for a schedule the first chapter will really speak to you. If, on the other hand, you are just having trouble working your schedule out, the chapter on "Challenges" will be a tremendous boost. This chapter reminds me of the charts that come with appliances. "If your dryer is...try this."
Step by step instructions and an interactive scheduling kit for making your own personalized family schedule that includes all the family members come packaged together. I have read more organizational books than you can shake a stick at as my Great Grandma would say. This one is tailor made for homeschoolers and will be invaluable to you!
Review by Lorrie Flem editor of TEACH
Used with permission. TEACH ("To Encourage And Challenge Homeschoolers") is a 20 page quarterly publication full of encouragement and practical advice for educators. To receive a free email sample, contact us at teachhsnews@juno.com. Send $2 for a print sample to: 18016 West Spring Lake Drive, Renton WA 98058
----------------------------------
Here is a excerpt from Marilyn Howshall's newsletter Lifestyle of Learning Newsletter, April, 1997, Box 1750, Eatonville, WA 98328:
Many questions I receive have to do with how to get rid of boredom and how to develop self-motivation in children. The common complaint is that the child is not interested in learning or pursuing his own education and in some cases even in developing his own interests. To combat this condition, the parent's focus must shift away from the academic needs of the child and over to the needs of his heart and character. For a season perhaps you will need to set a rule in the home for how free time is spent in the afternoons. The purpose for this approximately three hour block of time (at least four days a week) will be to help the child overcome laziness of mind and action and thus, developing self-motivation in him which will eventually eliminate the boredom.
Begin by rereading the chapter in Wisdom's Way of Learning which presents the Seven Natural Vital Signs of the Learning Process. Then determine your block of time and help your child list all the possible activities that can be pursued during that time. The activities must be acceptable to you.
Select several activities that you know he could eventually like or he already likes to do and make him choose among them. They must be valuable activities that could lead to productivity, service, or study. He does not have to spend the whole three hours on one activity or interest but he must stay within his predetermined list for several months. This will develop self-motivation in him as he will know he gets to choose and may begin to suggest other acceptable interests to include on his list. This is what you want to see because he will actually be evaluating the worth of activities at that point.
Then help him each day to develop the pattern of choosing among his list of activities. In so doing he is learning how to make wise decisions for how his time is spent. Remember that this block of time must be his free time and the activities on the list should not include your general academic requirements. This is also not a time for friends, exercise, chores, or anything else that regularly occurs throughout the day.
Help your child to understand why you are doing this by explaining that boredom is a condition that developed in his soul and that it is not the way God intends him to be. God has a plan for his life, and pursuing the development of interests will lead him to discovering what that will include. Talk with him of the need to overcome all fleshly tendencies and to become a good steward over the time given to him. Pray with him...and in any case appeal to his heart in all your communication with him. Your goal is to build his character and develop in him a sense of purpose. His true character will show up in his choices, so this is why you want to focus on his free time. As he begins to enjoy this time everyday and really pour himself into his activities you will notice self-initiation and self-motivation develop which in turn will develop in him short-term vision for many aspects of his education.
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Authors, Authors: A Chronological annotated bibliography of authors and literary works of western literature from ancient times through 1798 compiled by Patricia Anne Mc Farlane, 17114 Barcelona Drive, Friendswood, TX 77546 (713-482-0866)
--------------------------------
Laurie,
My sister who is expecting her fifth child at the end of March is currently homeschooling her oldest two daughters, grades 1 and 3. She is knowledgeable in the classical approach, tries to use it herself, and also has helped to start a classical school that meets twice a week with paid teachers. The philosophy of the school is patterned after George Grant's model whereby parents still homeschool the majority of the time-the children simply meet for the "extras" 2 afternoons a week.
Her dilemma is that she fears her oldest especially is not getting "enough" at home. The interruptions of the younger two are a major distraction. She is contemplating sending the oldest three to her church's very popular day school next year-(she has in fact received much heat over the last three years for homeschooling-she has little support for it in her church in Jackson, MS, since the church has a school.) The church is affluent by and large and the conventional wisdom among young mothers there is to send the children to school as early as possible so that they, the mothers, can socialize, do volunteer work, etc. My sister is swimming upstream in that environment. She used to be one of them until she read Mary Pride's THE WAY HOME.
Yesterday she called me to ask my advice about school enrollment-whether or not to do it.
I told her I understand her dilemma and her concerns about her childrens' education and I strongly encouraged her to reconsider keeping her children home. Her oldest likes being homeschooled, but she is not "Speedy Gonzales" which is one of my sis's concerns. Janie, my sis, thinks maybe another teacher would be able to "get more out of her" than she can. I reminded Janie of the pitfalls of even a "good" Christian school-peer dependence being the biggest, along with hours away from home, and then homework on top of that. I reminded her that there are distractions in any classroom. I exhorted her to be more consistent with discipline, and to relax more about school. I told her that if she is spending time with her children in the scriptures each day, reading aloud to them and having them read to her, having them narrate back the story, maybe learning their math facts, etc, and copying some good writing here and there, that she really has nothing to worry about for at least 3 more years. I encouraged her to take more walks with her children so that the youngest one, aged 11/2, can get the wiggles out. She is doing a lot "right". Her children are exposed to great literature daily. The classes they take at their "school" are excellent.
She didn't sound convinced at the end of our conversation. I think she is really worried that they aren't doing as much as are their cohorts at the day school. I think she wants a break. She really does so much of this alone. (Her husband, who is very supportive of homeschooling and the classical approach, but who must work long hours and travel internationally for the family business, can't help as much as he'd like.) I've even urged her to change churches-there are others in town with more support for her, but she and her husband like some of the things their big church has to offer. Finally, I told her to love her children. I told her what you said about having their hearts. She knows the truth. Is there anything more you would add to what I've told her?
Thanks a bunch. Julie Wilcox
-----------------------------------
Dear Julie,
I think you have covered everything with your sister. In the end we have to just let go. When we surround ourselves with people who think differently than we do, and we experience very little support for our own position, then, in a moment of weakness (like when you are expecting a baby and feeling overwhelmed) we are tempted to give up and go the easy route (private school). It's called socialization and peer influence, and I'm not talking about the children here. We as adults are just as influenced by the opinions of our peers as we know our children to be. We as adults want to "fit in." That's why it's very important to properly "socialize" ourselves and avoid the influence of those who are intent on persuading us to go a route we ought not to. If you are one of those who is easily influenced by people and who likes to please people, then you ought to be careful who you surround yourself with. We all try to be careful who our children play with. We don't want our children constantly surrounded with children who have different values, goals, and beliefs than we do. Of course, you know I'm not saying that we must never associate with those who believe differently than we do. That would be impossible and absurd. But if you attend a church where you get no support for homeschooling, if you live near relatives who only tear you down, if your friends and neighbors don't homeschool, then it is no wonder that you will start to doubt the value of homeschooling. Surround yourself with people who will build you up, not tear you down.
Laurie
---------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999
Subject: Book reviews
I am writing from Bethlehem Books, a publishing company dedicated to reprinting quality children's literature. It is our opinion that children's literature really began to hit its stride in the early 1900's. I see that you have a book review section on your web page, concentrating on well written exciting stories. I was wondering if you've ever seen a copy our 1904 classic "The Story of Rolf and the Viking Bow." This heroic saga was written by historian Allen French in the style of the Icelandic Sagas, and is one of the best adventure books we have ever read. It was the first of the thirty books we've published, and probably is still our finest. You can find more information at Bethlehem Books. Homeschoolers ourselves for fifteen years, we've always admired the trivium approach, and attempted to implement it.
Thanks for your time,
Peter Sharpe
Bethlehem Books
15605 County Road 15
Minto ND 58261
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Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999
From: "john d. langdon"
Subject: HAM RADIO
Hello Harvey and Laurie,
We received the latest issue of the Teaching The Trivium and your very first article; "Why Classical School At Home?" was one of the finest to date. I thank you for the valuable insights. I have two questions for you; #1. How may I, a dad, and my sons become licensed Ham Operators?
a. Where may I obtain good information on Morse code?
b. Are you aware of Ham Radio "kits" which we may build?
c. In short, would you be willing to point out to us the most thorough means by which we may become licensed operators for the Ham Radio?
#2. Concerning Francis Turretin's Elenctic Theology, volumes 1, 2, & 3;
a. In one of his topics concerning "Free Will of Man", he gives a Greek word, for "Free Will of Man" that was coined in Alexandria. Would you please give me more information on this topic along with the Greek word that Francis Turretin was speaking of? This will aid us much in our studies in theology.
I thank you for your time and any information you will provide.
Sincerely,
Doug and Leslie
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Radio Shack carries a very good tape set for learning Morse Code. That's what we used and recommend. I would also find some local ham radio operators. Just ask around in your community to see who are the local "hams." These people are always very helpful in finding out where the licensing tests are given and all kinds of other information. They will also help you find a good radio. I don't know anything about building a radio, but I'm sure you can find information on that in one of the many ham radio catalogs. Your local hams will lead you to these. Here are a couple addresses: Amateur Radio Catalog, 5710 West Good Hope Road, Milwaukee, WI 53223 and QST (a ham radio magazine), 225 Main Street, Newington, CT 06111. Also, there are a couple of ham radio newsgroups that are very helpful. Laurie
Francis Turretin's Elenctic Theology is a valuable work in theology. It is the basis for virtually all of the English theologies up until modern times. He was a Reformed theologian. Unfortunately, I've never been able to afford buying it. So I can't answer your question. Perhaps someone on this list could help.
Harvey
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999
From: James A Willcox
Dear Bluedorns:
Recently, we received your most recent issue of TTT. It was very insightful and timely. We do have a few questions regarding the method of "delayed math". We have been studying the classical method for the past year. When we were introduced to the Triv., we felt as if we "had found the answer" and indeed we have!
However, as you are well aware, your methods differ from that of Doug Wilson of Logos School and the Dettweilers (spelling?) of Veritas. They believe that the time is ripe during the grammar stage for the "filling of facts" and encourage the memorization of many things. They begin Latin in the third grade and start with Saxon 1 in Kindergarten.
This is very different from what you suggest for the grammar stage regarding math and Latin. In fact. many other classical/Trivium catalogs have curriculum available on every subject, starting at the first grade.
Does a child really learn all that he has to ( or would have struggled to learn ) in the 5 or 6 years previously--in one month or so? If so, how do you present this material to the child of ten, when you have the text for a 5th grader?? What do you all use to ensure that your ten year old is prepared enough to process into Saxon 54 and will not struggle with the concepts presented there?
What is your opinion on starting Latin in third grade? What disadvantage or advantages can you see?
There is no doubt that if one adopted the idea that we should simply teach our children to have servant's hearts, to read, gather information for nature notebooks, and do handicrafts until age 10...there would be more time in our day to spend on things that mattered. (I bet my house would get cleaned more often, too!) ;-)
Thank you in advance for your response,
James and Dawn of Utah
---------------------------------
I will try to describe the similarities and differences, as I see it, between our application of the Trivium and the application of the Trivium of others.
Similarities (these are just 2 of the similarities):
1. Memorization is important and should be started when the child is young--maybe 2 or 3--and continued on throughout life (it's good for us old folks, too). Time should be spent everyday reciting memory work. Memorization builds and strengthens the mind. We might differ from others on WHAT should be memorized. We suggest having the child memorize passages of literature such as the Bible, essays, fiction, speeches or poetry. Perhaps the child could memorize passages of the Bible in Greek or Latin, and the same passages in English, in order to give them a feel for those languages. Memorizing passages of literature prepares the child for the study of formal grammar at age 10. He gets a feel for the way sentences are put together and builds his vocabulary. It also prepares the child to be a good writer. What goes into a child's head as a little one will come out later as he writes.
Others would say the time should be spent memorizing facts--dates, Latin verb endings, geographical data, etc. I would just like to make two points. 1)There is only so much time in the day, so we as the parent need to determine what is the best use of that time; and 2)The beauty of homeschooling is that you as the parent (not a newly-graduated-from-college young person teaching in a private or government school) are in charge of deciding what the child should be memorizing. If it is important to you that the child have all the states and capitals memorized by age 10 then by all means do it. I would suggest that both parents sit down and write out a list of those things they think are important for their children to memorize adding to this list as different ideas come and go.
Because of the way the brain is structured, memorizing passages in the language would be much more effective than memorizing deductive paradigms in the language. The time for formal grammar -- paradigms and such -- is at age ten or after. Jane Healy goes into a detailed explanation of the difficulties which arise from stuffing formal grammar into a head at too early of an age.
Let me say one thing concerning the memorization of dates. We would recommend your family make a time line. Get a very long piece of computer paper, draw a line down the middle, mark if off in 50 year or so increments, tape it to your living room wall and leave it there for the next 20 years. Every time you read something historical mark it on your time line. The children could even illustrate the time line. Some put their time lines in 3 ring binders. That works well also. A time line, especially if it is in full view of the children all the time, gives them a continual view of the continuity of history. This will make it easier for you to memorize dates, if that is important to you. But most importantly, it gives the child an idea of what happened when, in relationship to other events. Hey, Daddy was in college when they landed a man on the moon!
2. Reading aloud is important. We recommend at least 2 hours a day. My guess, but I don't know, is that others recommend about the same, although if you have your children in a private school it might be hard to work in 2 hours a day.
Differences:
1. Math -- Others recommend starting the study of formal math at age 5 (kindergarten) using a first grade math book. We would recommend starting formal math at age 10, starting with a 6th grade math book. See our recent article in volume 6 of TTT for more of a discussion on this subject. By age 10, the child will have informally, either with your help or often without it, learned a great deal of math. Now, if the child lives in a home where neither parent is around much, where the child is watching TV or videos much of the day and not given time to explore and investigate the world around him, and where the love of learning is never encouraged, then that child will never be able to start a 6th grade math book at age 10. But my guess is that most homeschooling families interested in pursuing the classical approach will not have homes like this.
Here are some examples of how children can learn math informally:
playing games such as Rummikub, chess, checkers, cards games, dominoes, jacks, pick-up-sticks, hopscotch playing store or restaurant with brothers and sisters cooking helping Dad around the house and learning the measurement system children learn counting and numbers in all kinds of ways while doing chores (setting the table, etc.) handling money playing with cuisennaire rods observations while driving in a car (mileage signs) baseball statistics
This concept of waiting till age 10 to begin the study of formal mathematics, and then using a 6th grade math book to start, is one that is very controversial. When we start talking about it in our seminar it is always interesting to watch the reaction of the audience. Eyes start to stare, jaws sag in some, some start to smile and really light up, some shake their heads and roll the eyes. But, you know, this idea is not something original with us. We didn't think it up. We read about it first in the writings of Raymond Moore. When I first read about this concept of delayed academics (in 1978 or so), I disregarded it as quackery. After all, our oldest child Nathaniel was quite smart, not a genius exactly, of course you know, but bright. I'm saying this facetiously, because he was, and is, just an average kid, but when a person is young and his children are little, he tends to have elevated views of the intellegence of his children. Anyway, we were sure we could get Nathaniel through all the grades by the time he was 13. So we began with math (and the other academics) at age 4 and a half. It is through our own experiences with our five children, our reading of the research done by the Moores, our own research (see Volume 6 of TTT for a history of the teaching of math), and the experiences of many others who have communicated with us that we have come to the conclusions that we have.
You expressed concern that perhaps a 10 year old would not be ready to start in Saxon 65 if he has done no previous formal math. All I can say is that, from my own experience and from the experience of many others, an average 10 year old raised in a nurturing home is perfectly capable of jumping into Saxon 65 at age 10. Other 6th grade math books would probably be just as good, but I only have experience with Saxon.
2. English grammar -- Others recommend starting the formal study of English grammar in the first grade (age 6). We would recommend starting at age 10 (grade 5). Our reasoning is that grammar is an abstract concept, like math, and is best left till the child is able to reason abstractly, around age 10. See our article on math in Volume 6 of TTT. Memorization and narration and reading aloud and copywork before age 10 will prepare your child for the study of formal grammar at age 10.
Different parts of the brain handle the language itself, and the grammatical analysis of the language. The part which handles the language is developed enough by age four or so. He learns the language inductively. He knows the subject comes before the verb, and the direct object afterward, even though he has no way of conceiving what a subject, a verb, and a direct object are. He learns vocabulary and style without any way of conceiving what a noun, verb, or preposition is, or what iambic pentameter is. He just enjoys language. The part of the brain which handles the formal grammar is developed by age ten or so. If you try to teach formal grammar too early, you will put the information in odd places of the brain and it is more difficult for the brain to assimilate and use.
3. Latin -- Others would recommend starting the study of Latin in the third grade (age 8). The children would be memorizing vocabulary, case endings, verb endings, and simple translation at this age. In grade 4 the student would begin the study of Latin grammar. We would recommend the study of Latin grammar begin at age 10 (grade 5). If desired the book English From the Roots Up could be studied before age 10, but it is certainly not necessary. As mentioned above, we see some value in having the young child (before age 10) memorize passages of the Bible in Latin or Greek.
4. Probably the biggest difference is that we believe the child's place is in the home, not in a classroom situation.
<many other classical/Trivium catalogs have curriculum available on every subject, starting at the first grade>
You are correct here. For example, some Trivium catalogs sell the the Shurley grammar, to be used starting at grade one. I am sure the Shurley grammar is a fine grammar, but it is certainly not the only English grammar curriculum that can be used by a family pursuing the classical approach. There are many wonderful grammar curricula out there. We have, for the past 10 years, used Noah Webster's Spelling Book to teach English grammar. It's not a grammar textbook per se, but can be used to teach English grammar, although if you are unfamiliar with English grammar yourself it would involve some work for you. Websters is not for the person who wants everything all laid out workbook style. I like Websters because it is inexpensive ($8), nonconsumable, good for teaching spelling and vocabulary, and his sentences are beautiful. But Noah Webster's Spelling Book is not the only good book for teaching English grammar. There are others that will do the job just as well.
Another example is the teaching of reading. One catalog seems to say that Sing, Spell, Read, and Write is what you need to buy to teach reading if you want to follow the classical approach. Actually, there are numerous good intensive phonics programs available to families who want to pursue the classical approach. I am a little disappointed in one thing, though. All of the phonics programs have gotten quite expensive. The teaching of reading doesn't have to be expensive.
Another example is literature. One catalog recommends you purchase for your 1st grade student (from them) the book Corduroy. Not 2nd grade nor kindergarten, but 1st grade. I love the book Corduroy. I probably read it 15,000 times to my kids. It's in every library, and you might be able to find it in a used book store. Unfortunately, many families just beginning to homeschool will see that Corduroy is recommended for the 1st grade and think that, yes, they must read Corduroy in only the first grade, along with all the other specific books recommended for the 1st grade, and if they don't read Corduroy in the first grade then they are "behind." It puts an unnecessary burden on homeschooling families. Why not recommend instead that Corduroy be read sometime (and many times) between the ages of 2 and 12? One of the beauties of homeschooling is that we are not bound by grade levels and graded reading lists and required subjects and books such as What Every Second Grader Should Know. Grade levels and graded reading lists and such are for private and public classroom situations where the teacher must gear his teaching to the average student in his classroom of 25 students. We as homeschooling families are not bound by those types of things.
The one Trivium catalog I have looked at is very valuable for its lists of recommended reading for history. I suggest disregarding the grade levels, though. Good history books are becoming harder to find in libraries so you might want to purchase some of these history resources. It's the same with science books.
Let me go over very briefly the 10 things we recommend for children before age 10 (these are not listed in order of importance):
1. Teach reading (intensive phonics) and handwriting (copywork).
2. Teach obedience.
3. Memorization.
4. Work and Service.
5. Read aloud at least 2 hours a day (history/geography, science, literature).
6. Arts (includes music appreciation).
7. Family worship and Bible study.
8. Field trips and library research.
9. Narration.
10. Plenty of time for play and exploration.
Harvey and Laurie
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999
Dear Bluedorns,
We met you at a seminar in North Platte, NE about three years ago when your children had chickenpox. We have been home schooling for 14 years and have 11 children ( Aimee-19, Kim-18, Jim-16, Robert-14, Christina-13, Deborah-11, John-10, Daniel-8, Steven-5, Melissa-4, and Lee-2). We have been worshipping at home for the last 3 years as there are no reformed churches within an hour or so of our home (probably more like 5 hours away).How can we find other reformed families to home church with ? We have been trying to get transferred anywhere south/east of Nebraska since moving here 4 years ago. Our desired location is southeastern Alabama. Have you taught any seminars there?
Now my trivium question:
I'm always thrilled by reading a description of the grammar phase. For example,"In science he learns the names and classifications of plants, animals, minerals, etc. and makes collections of specimens." What is a resource for teaching this, as this teacher doesn't know the classifications herself? I need something that is progressive and orderly . I have various collections of specimens and flashcards of animals with scientific names but it all gets stuffed to the back of the shelves because I can't come up with a way to start our study or a way to know that we have accomplished our objective(?). My approach has been very hit or miss, so I'm afraid the children's learning in the area of science is hit or miss also. I really want to improve this area of our home school and am open to any and all suggestions, or stories of your experiences teaching science with the Trivium.
Thanks for your help,
Cherry Messer
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I love science and wish our younger children were as interested in it as I am. Nathaniel, our oldest, was always ready to study science. When he was 13 (10 years ago) I read in the newspaper about a science fair to be held in two weeks at the local mall. It was open to all students in the area, even homeschooled students. We decided to try to come up with some projects to enter into this fair. Since Nathan was interested in model rockets he decided to do an experiment on how high a rocket would fly with different weights in its payload. He built some kind of tool that would measure the height of the rocket using angles and geometry. His project was very simple. His project write-up and display were very simple. And he won first place over all the other government school 8th graders--there must have been about 20 other kids. Johannah's project was something about making bread using different ingredients. She got 3rd place. Their projects were so simple that we were quite surprised that they won. I think it was the simplicity, though thoroughness, that impressed the judges. So every year for the next 5 years Nathaniel and sometimes Johannah or Hans entered a science fair. Nathaniel won 1st place each year. Am I bragging too much? Forgive me. But it was so much fun. We loved going to the libraries researching the different projects. It was always a challenge to think up the different topics for projects. One year he made wine under pressure (simulating pre-flood days). Another year he grew plants under some kind of electromagnet. That was the year he won 3rd place over all the high school students in the Quad Cities, a very large area. Our experience has been that homeschooled students most ofter do well at these science fairs. The judges like original ideas and a thorough understanding of the topic. Some science fairs will allow students to display projects that are more like demonstrations (how a volcano works) or collections (the different kinds of insects found in my yard) in place of a real science experimen hypothesis, proceedure, data, and conclusions. Demonstrations and collections are good beginning projects for a student in the grammar stage (ages 8-12), while students in the logic or rhetoric stages should be doing real science experiments. There are also science contests that homeschooling students in the logic and rhetoric stages can participate in (see our Trivium Resource Packet for a list of contests).
Concerning classifications, one year we put together a notebook of the classifications of plants and animals. The notebook was divided into the 5 kingdoms. Not all are agreed on the exact number of kingdoms, but the 5-kingdom system is increasingly being accepted as the best. We use the Bob Jones Biology book for our information. Each kingdom was divided into phyla, each phylum was divided into classes, etc. You might want to draw out a chart of the system before you start your notebook, in order to get an idea of the scheme of things.
The 5 kingdoms are:
Monera--bacteria and blue-green algae
Protista--protozoans, algae (except blue-green) Fungi--mushrooms, molds, yeasts Plantae--trees, ferns, flowers, grain Animalia--worms, sponges, insects, vertebrates
In our travels we once stayed with a family that was really into collecting things. Their boys had large collections of snakes, lizards, spiders and rocks, all very neatly organized and contained in boxes and labeled. It was a wonder to behold. I would suggest that you discuss with your children what they would like to start studying and collecting first. Rocks is a good thing to start with. Start studying rocks using books at the library. Talk to people who make rock collecting a hobby and find out how they organize their specimens and where they obtain them. Use newsgroups and mailing lists on the internet to do your research. See our article in Practical Homeschooling on how to use the internet to do research.
Laurie
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999
Hitty: Her First Hundred Years - by Rachel Field
My daughter (11 1/2) has read and reread Hitty. It is one of her favorite books, and she has summarized the tale for us many times. We have given many copies away of it as gifts. I have not read the book myself to comment on, but did read Field's Calico Bush - which was another of Kelly's favorites, and it was excellent. Is there a specific question about the book? If so, I could have my daughter address it.
Karen Miller
Mother of 5 - almost 6
San Mateo, Calif
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Hitty is one of our most favorite books also. Another book by Rachel Field that we especially enjoyed is Hepatica Hawks. It's about a girl who works for a circus.
Does anyone know anything about the book Cloister and the Hearth by Charles Read?
Laurie
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Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999
Subject: classical books
From: James A Willcox
As previously stated, we have been asked to give a workshop on the Trivium at our state convention. We have some questions that we would relish the opportunity to ask your opinion on.
We are trying to anticipate some of the questions that we are going to be asked regarding the Trivium after we present our workshop. We are quite sure that someone is going to ask a question regarding literature: "Of what useful purpose is it to read things to your children (or let them read to themselves) books that are not Christian in nature or overtly Christian?? Why let your children read books that are not written by non-Christians?"
We know homeschoolers who do not read ANYTHING that is not by a Christian author and even so, reject many books if they appear to have too much "conflict or evil". This would include, but not be limited to: the Narnia Chronicles, The Hobbit Series, George MacDonald, Dickens, etc.
We want to be very sensitive to this. Just a short while ago, I (Dawn) did not have the thoughts I do now. My husband is a self taught learner. He has always read "classic" books. He created an appetite within himself to crave good literature. I, on the other hand had never read any of the books he has read.
Now, I devour them. I spend time reading things that I was never taught to read when I was younger. Our seven year old, who is a vivacious reader, said to me, "Mama, have you ever read Leo Tolstoy's stories for children? My answer was that I had not. "Oh Mama! They are lovely. You must read them after me!"
Oh brother! Spoken only as a child can! I thought that you would like this.......guess what I did before I stayed home with my kids??? I taught public school!!!!
So, what is to be said about Silas Marner (family conflict, lying, children out of wedlock), Jane Eyre (lying, insanity, passion, drunkenness), The Brothers Karamazov (murder, deceit, rage, degrades religion), any of the Narnia books (witch, magic, fantasy, unicorns, satyrs, etc.), or A Christmas Carol (ghosts, magic, death, scary atmosphere)?
"What benefit or value is there in letting your family read these books or books like them?"
With highest regards and rich blessings to you, James and Dawn in Utah
-------------------------------
This is a very good question and needs to be addressed. The first time this question was asked of me was several year ago at a homeschool convention in Houston, Texas. A woman was looking over our Hand That Rocks the Cradle (the list of books we have read and recommend) and wondered why we recommend the book Johnny Tremain since it is a book about war.
I do know that some books we read and approved of and enjoyed 15 years ago we would not necessarily approve of today. Take for example the Jeremy books (by Hugh Walepole). We read them several years ago and I remember loving them. I recently reread one of them and couldn't believe I ever liked it. Jeremy, the main character, is quite disrespectful of his parents, and what is worse, his disrespectfulness is approved of by the author. In other words, if the boy showed disrespect and was punished for it and this conflict was resolved in the book, then that would be OK. But in this story, he showed disrespect and the author just allowed that to be a part of Jeremy's character without showing that it was wrong. Fifteen years ago I didn't see that problem. Today I see the problem very clearly.
We took the books off of our list.
Another option is to read the book very critically, pointing out the problems and faults, and analyzing the author's philosophy. In other words, use it as an example to show the children what to keep their eyes open for. Of course, you should never read anything uncritically, but you also don't want to spend all of your time criticizing.
It's not an either/or question. Every parent has to make these judgement calls for their own family, and we can't fault families who choose not to read some literature.
It must be pointed out, however, that all of those bad things which you mentioned are also in the Bible. We skip some sections when reading the Bible to smaller children. When they’re older, they can learn discernment like the rest of us.
We, on occasion, read theological authors with whom we disagree. Obviously, we read very critically, and they often end up being much more profitable than author's with whom we agree -- precisely because they make us think. But we would not want a steady diet of the stuff.
Now if you can read theological authors with which you disagree, then it is not that great a stretch to read other authors with which you disagree. However, novels are specifically written to infuse readers with the subtle philosophies of their authors. So caution is in order.
What about the books by Charles Dickens? We very much love Dickens. But Charles Dickens was an immoral man. He deserted his wife of many years, a wife who bore him several children. In fact, it is sad to say that many of the great fiction writers were immoral. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle took cocaine. These things have to affect the literature that they wrote. Do not make a steady diet of one author. Read critically. Don't live for entertainment.
These are just some of our thoughts on this issue. We would like to hear what others think.
Harvey and Laurie
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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
From: "Dr. Phillip and Cynthia Dennis"
Subject: Christian schooling versus homeschooling
Dear Bluedorns,
This topic might not be a comfortable one for discussion in your Trivium newsletter, but I would like to ask you, even if privately, whether you would care to comment on this statement below. And no offense will be taken if you do not.
I am asking because we have a family with very young children (boys, 6 and 3) in our home church, and this family is trying to decide what to do educationally with their older son who will be in "kindergarten" next year.
Honestly, when our sons were growing up, there was no real choice in the matter -- we had to homeschool as there just were no really decent Christian schools around, let alone Classical Christian Schools.
We would like to give good scripturally sound advice to this family in our home assembly and would value your thoughts on this topic. And I must admit that I do tend to believe that homeschooling is favored above a Christian school setting, even a classical one, though I am not sure I could defend that belief scripturally, and so perhaps I must give it up.
Statement by someone on the christian-classical egroup from yesterday: >> Neither Christian schooling nor homeschooling require any defense. And neither is educationally or ethically superior to the other; it’s a matter of what your goals are and where your tastes lie.<<
Sincerely, in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Cindi Dennis in Thousand Oaks, CA
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Here is a letter taken from a christian-classical egroup:
Dr. and Mrs. Dennis:
I'll will predicate my comments with the disclaimer that each family chooses the educational method for its children according to those things it considers important. Whether it is a high degree of protection, or a high standard of academics, a more rounded sphere of social interaction with other children, sports, etc....the family will gravitate toward the model that best affords it to accomplish its stated or unstated desires. Because we all stand before the Lord giving account for what we do, each family must obey the commandment to train up the children in the fear of the Lord in the best way it knows how. Hopefully we all agree that state schools are not an alternative.
I was the one that made the statement that homeschooling is disrupting to the home, and that that was the reason we chose to go the traditional school route. Please believe me when I tell you that I was not trying to insult anyone. In answer to your request, I will expound.
It's a matter of time and resources. A father and a mother can not accomplish the same level of academics with their children without it affecting the management of the home, the relationship between the husband and wife, the kids' education or the view of the husband in the arrangement. Something has to give, the more children you have to care for at home, the more one of these areas will be sacrificed. Again, it's simply a matter of resources, time and mathematics. This is assuming that the chores of the home have not been hired away to a third party. That would be considered delegating and in principle is no different than a traditional school.
I'll simply use this as an example, not a final proof of the above.
When starting our school in ……, I spoke with well over 30 families about starting a school. All of them were homeschoolers. And although the majority did not join our school, all of them agreed that one of these 3 areas was being sacrificed with homeschooling. Most of them agreed that more than one area was being sacrificed, and that was usually the time between the husband and wife. Shocking enough was the agreement I received from most of them that somehow it had turned things around. The husband was viewed as the helper of the wife in the education of the children or in the cleaning of the home.
This is why my wife and I chose to start a school before we even started homeschooling. In principle, it has to. You are going to either give in on the home, the husband, or the academics. In practice, we've talked to too many families which have shared with us the reality of this.
I was asked to expound, and with as much grace in my heart and words, I have, hopefully to the offense of none on the list other than to encourage us more to love, good works and a healthy discussion of how we are to rebuild the ruins.
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This is like saying, "housing cows is disruptive to the cow barn." I suppose it is if you don't want to use the cow barn for what it was designed. Our concepts of "home" and "family" have been so fundamentally altered by the artificial culture created by socialized education thet we have forgotten what are the true purposes of the family. The real problem is that the modern cultural concept of "home" and "family" are disruptive to the legitimate Biblical family function of homeschooling, not vice versa. I am not saying anything about private classroom schools and hired tutors when I say this. Private schools and tutors have their place, and each father can sort out what that place is with respect to his family's calling and conditions and circumstances. But every family is a homeschooling family -- whether they realize it or not, whether they like it or not, and whether they do little or much of it. So let the cows into the cow barn and stop thinking of what transpires thereafter as a "disruption." "Oh mess and bother!" I'm sorry, but that's the real world. I suppose the next thing I'll hear is that having children is disruptive of marriage.
It appears that you have some strange perfectionistic "ideal" of family life, and anything which disrupts this hallucinary "ideal" is bad, is wrong, is ugly.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
One can respond to stress in the family in one of two ways: "O bother!" or "O thank you." You can look at it as a drudgery requiring disruption and sacrificial loss, or as an opportunity allowing for growth and adjustment. "It's simply a matter of resources, time and mathematics."
You listed four areas:
>A father and a mother can not accomplish
>the same level of academics with their children
>without it affecting
1) the management of the home,
2) the relationship between the husband and wife,
3) the kids' education or
4) the view of the husband in the arrangement
...somehow it had turned things around.
The husband was viewed as the helper of the wife
You describe the problem well. People raised in this culture do not know how to live a real family life. They have some dreamy storybook or Hollywood ideal about 1) home management, 2) husband and wife relations, 3) education, and 4) the husband-father's role, and they try to make their life conform to this world's ways.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Naturally, there is stress between the world's ways and God's ways. Giving in to the world is not the solution. Giving in to God is. I won't address the four points specifically because everyone's situation is different, and I can't cover every possibility. Let me make these general observations:
1) According to the Bible, the wife's role is as the house-manager. She must manage it according to her husband's desires as those desires are under God's law. He doesn't need to micromanage her management.
2) The relationship between husband and wife grows not through times of isolated intimacy, but through working toward the same goals together.
That's what makes the isolated times of intimacy precious.
3) The children's education is the father's responsibility. Many parents have a ridiculous conception of what is required, and overburden themselves with all kinds of activities and studies which are either redundant or unnecessary. Determine your limits and work within them -- don't try to cram everything possible within them. Don't pig out on education. Learn to say, "No!" to all the good things available.
4) I don't remember the Bible saying that the father can't be a helper to his wife. All I remember is that the wife is a helper fitted to her husband. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Now a true reversal of roles would be if the wife becomes the head, and the husband submits to the wife. But especially in this reversed culture, because of the added burdens placed upon the family, the wife needs the husband's strength to lean on for help, and the husband needs the wife's tenderness to lean on for relief.
You can't be saying that all homeschoolers are in open sin, but all private classroom schoolers are living the ideal life and have no problems in these three (or four) areas. So what do you mean? I'm guessing some families have shared their problems -- things they haven't worked out yet, and perhaps are looking longingly for some way out of the problems -- or at least someone else's sympathy. If you keep looking for a way out, you'll never solve your problems, you'll just multiply them. The multiple divorce rate in the country may serve as an example of how our culture has lost the whole idea of family and people are taught to look for some way to shift responsibility and get out of their commitments instead of taking responsibility and working them out. And the raging socialism feeds the fire.
This culture is a ruins because of its unbibilical ideals -- ideals which have unfortunately been adopted by professed Christianity. Who wants to rebuild the cultural ruins? They will not stand on their own. Yet people -- including especially many Christians -- still feel some cultural obligation to keep propping them up. We need to rebui